AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS

Zara wrote:

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Oh, well, I think he does have quite a salient point there. Britney/Madonna kissing is still brought up as a "best of" moment from the VMAs and lots of network shows have shown that moment in retrospect...so why does a male/male kiss have to be censored? I think that's an excellent point.

I bet the networks had a heyday over the madonna/Britney kiss at the time-and probably edited it in some markets. The AMA's were broadcast live at a time when impressionable children could be watching and networks tend to censor things that they have not approved of before hand like someone giving the finger, dropping the f bomb, 2 men making out etc.

Men kissing is all over the place in the media and is more or less accepted in films, cable TV, magazines etc. Even some network shows have shown men kissing if it is approved by the network censors before hand. That is the way it is.

I don't think the kiss is what anyone is carrying on about. It's the simulated blow job and the bondage stuff that seems to be turning a lot of people off. Kissing even between men is small beans compared to that face in his crotch.

BTW..Susan Boyles cd is BEAUTIFUL.

zara wrote:

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What I meant about racist against gays refers to the comment about the "double standard" in the industry that Adam referred to...hopefully he won't play that card.

Oh, well, I think he does have quite a salient point there. Britney/Madonna kissing is still brought up as a "best of" moment from the VMAs and lots of network shows have shown that moment in retrospect...so why does a male/male kiss have to be censored? I think that's an excellent point.

But the kiss wasn't censored so I don't think he's got anything to gripe about there.

As for the finger, who knows why he did it. I'm still trying to figure out why he did anything last night.

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I don't think the kiss is what anyone is carrying on about. It's the simulated blow job and the bondage stuff that seems to be turning a lot of people off. Kissing even between men is small beans compared to that face in his crotch.

Yep.

Other then Kelly Clarkson, Keith Urban, and poor Whitney, all the performances were pretty raunchy. The whole time Lady GaGa was at the piano you saw her rear in the mirror. Janet Jackson grabbed a guys balls and bent him over. Shakira was quite naughty (mom even called to complain to me about her) Carrie took some heat for not wearing any pants (well, to be fair she did have tiny pants) Rhianna was just wearing bondage wrap and Eminem and 50's song had more bleeps then any bleeping song I ever heard bleeped before! That is how the AMAs have been for years. Same with Billboard Awards. I think they try to out shock each other Also these shows have been more dance/R&B/rap/hip hop than rock for years.

I don't think Adam was implying he was taking heat for being gay - but for being a male pushing the envelope while Madonna and Britney have been doing it for 20 and 10 years respectively.

You know ding dang well he will be totally different on Letterman singing a totally different song!

I just read that SuBo's sale will be over 500,000!!! I am shocked I tell you!! Shocked!

I did just read a post on another board I go to that that poster bought it today and said it is all sloooooooooooooooow songs.

Glamm - I listened to part of it on-line and I couldn't even get through it. I just cannot take that kind of slow songs. Her Wild Horses seemed to be on the wrong speed. I wanted to pull the words out of her mouth!

Day Dream Believer is the only semi up beat song but she is just haunting. Her voice is gorgeous and soothing and thilling. It's one of those hot bubble bath and candles cds :)

Glam

The kiss wasn't censored? I had read that it was. I didn't bother to watch the edited version since we got the unedited version live here. But I definitely thought that was what Adam was referring to.

I laughed, out loud, at Adam and all his outrageousness, in a good way, at the simulated blowjob. </SPAN>

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I bet the networks had a heyday over the madonna/Britney kiss at the time-and probably edited it in some markets.

It was 6 years ago. I don't recall it being edited here when it was discussed on the entertainment shows and shows like "Inside Edition" and the like. (I had to have seen it somewhere and I don't think I was watching the actual show). I live in a very conservative city and I don't recall any censoring of it here. But my point was that it has been 6 years and that's very often brought up as one of the "best of" or memorable moments from the VMAs, in a positive way.

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The AMA's were broadcast live at a time when impressionable children could be watching and networks tend to censor things that they have not approved of before hand like someone giving the finger, dropping the f bomb, 2 men making out etc.

I have a real issue with the premise of the AMAs as a family show. I have an 11-year-old son and I would have turned off 85% of the acts that were on if he had been in the room. Not because I'm opposed to men making out but because we're really strict about what he's allowed to see on TV. To be honest though, most of Adam's performance would have gone right over his innocent little head and given that we have many gay friends he likely wouldn't think twice about the genders of two people kissing. But if the argument to be made is that the AMAs weren't appropriate for children, there as a lot more than Adam going on that wasn't appropriate for children. Adam's never made any claims about being a "family" entertainer and has been pretty upfront about who he is since the day he left AI so I guess I don't think he bears a lot of responsibility as an artist to be child-appropriate.

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Men kissing is all over the place in the media and is more or less accepted in films, cable TV, magazines etc. Even some network shows have shown men kissing if it is approved by the network censors before hand. That is the way it is.

So is the issue then supposed to be whether a male/male kiss is approved beforehand?

Hmmm, who would be my hot bubble bath and candles CD??? Probably Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway :D

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The kiss wasn't censored? I had read that it was. I didn't bother to watch the edited version since we got the unedited version live here. But I definitely thought that was what Adam was referring to.

I laughed, out loud, at Adam and all his outrageousness, in a good way, at the simulated blowjob.

Well I haven't watched it more than once (that was enough for me) but I've read that it was in the edited version out west. Can our western ladies confirm? What I also read is that somehow a clip of Adam hit CNN in between the eastern (live) and western (edited) version saying that he would consider it censorship if it was edited. Once again it's just something I read.

For the record, I find all the sexual crap on these shows vulgar. It's not just Adam and I'm just really sad that he conformed to what others do because he has the talent to not have to. That's why I won't be laughing about any of it.

canear, I totally understand, but I think the difference to me is that I found everything about Adam's performance more campy than serious.

The only thing that was edited in the West Coast was the head on the crotch.

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The only thing that was edited in the West Coast was the head on the crotch.

Thanks.

I was just thinking though, IIRC Adam's comments were made after the live show and before his performance aired on the west coast, so if he was speaking about the possibility of the kiss being edited, so in that context I think his remarks are still spot on specifically relating to that, and in the more general sense of there being wider acceptance of straight female artists pushing the envelope in that fashion.

Which led me to think what the reaction may have been if a lesbian artist had pushed the envelope in a similar way and I think there would have been a very big uproar.

You are exactly right Zara.

Shawn from AH grabbed him right after the performance and said "you have to know they may edit this on the west coast" and he thought she meant the kiss (he probably knew she could have meant other things too) but clearly he was upset they might edit out the kiss.

I think it was meant to be campy. Adam loves campy. Adam has been campy a long time.

Once again - I am only upset that the vocals were off and he fell and it messed him up. If his vocals had been spot on and there was not glitch like the fall - I'd have been OK with the rest. I just wanted a super good vocal performance to be the hot topic.

Firecracker wrote:

What can I say? I guess you will not be a fan then. It is what it is. I think he is hugely talented and I think he is being who he is artistically. Last night was exactly the way he was pre-Idol. I don't expect him to be fake about his art. He knew he would lose fans and he choose to stay true to what he wants to do. Will it bite him in the ass? Maybe. But he is 27 years old and it is his decision to make.

I personally do not think he is being rude. You are forced to be a certain way on Idol. He wanted to catch his break so he went on it. I never expect these kids to be "who they are" musically on Idol. They are forced to sing covers on theme weeks. For the most part we do not get to see who they are as artists. Some we do yes - Cook and Daughtry come closest. I don't expect him to spend years recording and performing different than he wants to because of the show he was a part of.

He thanked his fans last night profusely in that one interview. He has thanked the fans profusely many times. He has praised Idol and the people there to the high heavens. Now he is off Idol, off the Idol tour and on to who he is and wants to be. He has the right to make that break now after one full year of being tied to it. Now the people who loved him on Idol make their decision if they like his musical direction or not. Hey - I am sure the people who loved Danny and wanted an R&B/Soul recording from him and not thrilled with him going country. Besides, seems most people just move on to the next season's group anyway or why else would Kris sell less than 100,000 his first week after millions voted for him?

Oh well. What can you do...

Me? I still love him. I am still a fan. One bad night doesn't ruin everything else for me....

ETA: Me too Sky! I think that interview was awesome and just what I needed this morning :D

This is all I am going to say. I love him and I love his cd. I bought if off of Itunes,(the deluxe one), and I bought a physical copy at Target. I will keep supporting his music cause I love his voice. The thing I am upset with him about is when he gets pissy he pulls out the "YOU don't Get it and are Closed minded crap". I am sorry there is nothing to get seeing someone similuate a blowjob on you while you are singing is just not good and that is for anybody not just Adam. I am not a voyer,(sp?), so it is not fun for me seeing that kind of performance. I could care less about the kiss cause it was so quick and that you see people doing on the street. I don't like to see people doing that on the street but I can live with it. I do not see people giving others blowjobs and that is good. I am not close minded and I am sorry it hurts me and others when he says stuff like that. I will never be one who will be comfortable seeing a sexual act being done on stage.

ETA: He needs to start thinking about things cause he got 1500 complaints. My stepmom read the article before I got on. If these complaints get to the FCC ABC, The AMA's and Adam could be fined some good money. Does he want that to start off his career? Most of the complaints by the way have nothing to do with the Kiss it is pretty much about the simulated bj and having Adam put Courtneys face to his crotch,

I can get mad at people and still be a fan. I have got so very ticked at Clay and his mouth many times but I am still a fan of his voice and will buy his cd.

Jason is religious and I think he has a right to state how he felt.

Kris was there to talk with Adam and if Kris didn't like it he probably told Adam to his face. Adam and Kris have both said they tell each other the truth and if they didn't like something of the performance or song they said would say it even if they said they hated something.

You can love someone without agreeing with all they do and Adam should except that instead of getting pissy and pretty much saying move on if you don't like it.

Shannon

Zara wrote:

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So is the issue then supposed to be whether a male/male kiss is approved beforehand?

Frankly, I don't really think any of it is really an "issue". Just interesting discussion about why he went so far over the top.
My general comment about my hoping he does'nt whine about double standards for gay men when it comes to criticism of the 'campiness" or somewhat off nature of the vocals of his performance was not directed specifically at the kissing incident-just a preference I have about entertainers who do bold things to get attention or take heat for their controversial or racey "artistic" expression that they should be able to face up to the consequences of it and take the heat, not try to point a finger at the flaws of the television censor system or compare themselves to other celebs that have gotten mileage out of their tacky publicity stunts. He is just too talented to need to go that route.

Some people/entertainers like to live a high drama life though and part of it is stirring up controversy. Well, he certainly has done that, and maybe that was the point of it all along.

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You can love someone without agreeing with all they do and Adam should except that instead of getting pissy and pretty much saying move on if you don't like it.

Thanks for saying that Angel because he has implied it more than once and it stings.

Well, there was no actual blowjob for anybody to watch

ABC said that 1500 complaints is nothing. They have had other shows get more than 20,000 so they find this mild. This is on their own website. I read it for myself. The Janet Jackson/Timberlake/Boobgate got tens of thousands of complaints. So 1500 is not a big deal to a network. A rep for ABC said "15,000,000 watched and only 1500 complained". So I am not worried that Adam is going to have to pay any fines. This will be old news by tomorrow anyway.

Several celebs have Tweeted much support for Adam. In fact John Mayer's Tweet was awesome! I have new found respect for John Mayer now! Maybe I will check out his new CD.

Kris and Adam may have discussed it afterwards and that is fine, but how about publically showing support for your best freind? Kris has not Tweeted to go out and buy Adam's CD today as Adam Tweeted that for Kris. I am disappointed about that. Alli was very supportive of Adam last night.

If Jason is so religious then I would suspect most of the show last night upset him. Did he Tweet that Janet Jackson grabbing a man's balls and bending him over was disguesting? What about Eminem's song of endless bleeping? Just wondering. I wouldn't think the AMAs would appeal to the overly religious in the first place.

If the fans are free to critisize then Adam is free to defend himself. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying "this is me and if I am not your type of artist then so be it". People wanted Clay to be more rock and he said "that's not me and that's not what I want to sing". So people who don't want "Moon River" have moved on to artists that are their style. Makes perfect sense.

You know - maybe it is the mom in me - but nobody is perfect. Nobody goes throught their life or career without making mistakes or some bad judgement calls. Both of my boys have made mistakes and bad decisions at times. Some times I want to smack them upside the head. I'd still give them a hell of a lot of chances before turning my back on them. I will do the same for Adam.

ETA: You know - he gave us one hell of an amazing season on Idol. One hell of an incredible tour. Countless amazing interview to watch. This was one performance in almost of year of sheer joy!

horselaydee wrote:

Zara wrote:

Quote :

So is the issue then supposed to be whether a male/male kiss is approved beforehand?

My general comment about my hoping he does'nt whine about double standards for gay men when it comes to criticism of the 'campiness" or somewhat off nature of the vocals of his performance was not directed specifically at the kissing incident-just a preference I have about entertainers who do bold things to get attention or take heat for their controveraial or racey "artistic" expression that they should be able to face up to the consequences of it and take the heat, not try to point a finger at the flaws of the television censor system or compare themselves to other celebs that have gotten mileage out of their tacky publicity stunts. He is just too talented to need to go that route.

He is taking the heat, though. He's not backing down and he's defending his rights as an artist. I think he would likely not agree that he's too talented to go that route; I think he's going down exactly the route he wants to.

FC. you couldn't have summed it up better.

Your "maybe it's the mom in me" thoughts sound exactly like what my mom always says too. I suppose the two of you are a lot like.

Now what's this about John Mayer and a lot of other celebs coming to Adam's defense today? Where can I read their comments? I'd love to read the one made by John.

As I said before I do understand everyone's POV and I get what everyone is saying. To each his own. That's the beautiful part. You might not agree but at least you can respect someone's else's thoughts even when they differ from your own.

well to defend Kris he has not been on Twitter at all today. His last tweet said it was posted 20 hours ago. He hasn't even tweeted that he'll be on the Bonnie Hunt show on Tuesday which is endoresment for himself. Neither Kris nor Adam get the tweets about each others stuff right away; those two and Alli usually come a little later to the party on getting their things out there. They all do so I am not going to jump all over Kris for not doing it yet cause he is just as busy as Adam is.

ETA: Also if their is any chance that Kris and Katy didn't like what they saw it may be better for he and she to stay away from Twitter and not say anything,(if he said he didn't like it he would get tarred and feathered faster than you could say boo). I bet you anything Kris has tweets from people asking how he liked the performance. He gets asked about everything Adam and I have no doubt he got asked about this. He did a interview on the red carpet with Lyndsey and she asked him a lot about Adam. He said he was excited for the performance and other stuff. He said good stuff of Adam.

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I guess the only one that is getting my point is canear(and Teddy cause she gets all of what we are all saying ). I love love this man and it just hurts that when he gets a little testy he takes it out on the fans and says move on or your closed minded and blah blah blah. He has done it more than once and it isn't fair cause not all the people that are upset are close minded. He is insulting people when he constantly says this. If it was only the first time he said it I would say he was just having a bad day but it isn't the first time. He says this every time someone totally doesn't like something he did. He is being unfair. Even if I say this I am not saying I am not a fan. My family does things that royally piss me off and hurt me but I still love them it is the same thing with Kris, Adam and Alli,(She has done things since the tour that made me mad and disappointed in her but I am still a fan who will buy her cd).

Shannon

Yep, we definitely saw the kiss. I agree that Adam's performance was campy more than serious. Adam is saying 'impromptu' on the parts in question. I think he thrives on being noticed, in the news, talked about and he definitely has accomplished those!

I have a friend in NZ that emailed me today about hearing about the show......she didn't find much wrong with it and said that Americans have to be less homophobic! Love that girl! She did agree that his vocals weren't up to par.

Sky wrote:

Yep, we definitely saw the kiss. I agree that Adam's performance was campy more than serious. Adam is saying 'impromptu' on the parts in question. I think he thrives on being noticed, in the news, talked about and he definitely has accomplished those!

I have a friend in NZ that emailed me today about hearing about the show......she didn't find much wrong with it and said that Americans have to be less homophobic! Love that girl! She did agree that his vocals weren't up to par.

Okay I just found this:

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From mjsbigblog
Adam talked to Rolling Stone after his performance last night. He confirmed that he’ll be performing “Whataya Want From Me” when he tapes the Late Show with David Letterman today. He also confirmed that the same-sex lip lock and simulated BJ were done in the heat of the moment. “Adrenaline is crazy,” says Adam, “and sometimes things just happen.”
*****

Okay from what I am hearing this stuff was not planned so thye AMA's knew nothing of it from rehearsals and either did ABC. If this was heat of the moment stuff I doubt his Keyboard player knew Adam was going to plant a wet one on him and the guy doing the simulated Bj may have been surprised to have Adam grab his head and put it on his crotch. Doing stuff in the moment but doing what he did in the moment is something that could get him plus the AMA's and ABC in trouble with the FCC even though the AMA's and ABC had no clue he we going to do it. The kiss will not be in question if the FCC gets into it it will be the other thing.

Shannon

Angelwings wrote:

I

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guess the only one that is getting my point is canear. I love love this man and it just hurts that when he gets a little testy he takes it out on the fans and says move on or your closed minded and blah blah blah. He has done it more than once and it isn't fair cause not all the people that are upset are close minded. He is insulting people when he constantly says this. If it was only the first time he said it I would say he was just having a bad day but it isn't the first time. He says this every time someone totally doesn't like something he did. He is being unfair. Even if I say this I am not saying I am not a fan. My family does things that royally piss me off and hurt me but I still love them it is the same thing with Kris, Adam and Alli,(She has done things since the tour that made me mad and disappointed in her but I am still a fan who will buy her cd).

I understand what you are saying. I observed this defensive behaviour by another Idol finalist in another fandom whenever fans overly expressed their concern or gave criticism this person did not want to hear or did not take kindly to. He got nasty, defensive, and attacking. It is a quite an eye-opener and sometimes a shocker when the nice boy image dissolves away and the adult who does'nt seem to care about pleasing his fans anymore rises to the surface. However, It is a very necessary part of Adam trying to set some limits with his fans and it is actually a more honest,healthy thing to do vs. not being honest and trying to pretend you are someone you are not. I don't think there is any need for him to act arrogant or get nasty about it though.

I think you are very wise for your age angelwings. My advice is to continue to trust your feelings. If something makes you uncomfortable, you need to listen to that. I respect you for it, and I think everyone else here does too.

horselaydee wrote:

Angelwings wrote:

I

Quote :

guess the only one that is getting my point is canear,(and Teddy cause she gets all of what we are all saying ). I love love this man and it just hurts that when he gets a little testy he takes it out on the fans and says move on or your closed minded and blah blah blah. He has done it more than once and it isn't fair cause not all the people that are upset are close minded. He is insulting people when he constantly says this. If it was only the first time he said it I would say he was just having a bad day but it isn't the first time. He says this every time someone totally doesn't like something he did. He is being unfair. Even if I say this I am not saying I am not a fan. My family does things that royally piss me off and hurt me but I still love them it is the same thing with Kris, Adam and Alli,(She has done things since the tour that made me mad and disappointed in her but I am still a fan who will buy her cd).

I understand what you are saying. I observed this defensive behaviour by another Idol finalist in another fandom whenever fans overly expressed their concern or gave criticism this person did not want to hear or did not take kindly to. He got nasty, defensive, and attacking. It is a quite an eye-opener and sometimes a shocker when the nice boy image dissolves away and the adult who does'nt seem to care about pleasing his fans anymore rises to the surface. However, It is a very necessary part of Adam trying to set some limits with his fans and it is actually a more honest,healthy thing to do vs. not being honest and trying to pretend you are someone you are not. I don't think there is any need for him to act arrogant or get nasty about it though.

I think you are very wise for your age angelwings. My advice is to continue to trust your feelings. If something makes you uncomfortable, you need to listen to that. I respect you for it, and I think everyone else here does too.

Thank you for saying that I appreciate it

Shannon

Kris had time to Tweet several Tweets about that damn backwards robe. Just no time to Tweet about Adam's CD I guess - busy Adam seemed to find time to promote his friend. Kris and Katy didn't need to Tweet about the performance. Just a "Love ya man" or whatever as a show of support would have been nice. Just saying.

Yes, Adam said the kiss was "in the moment" but they simulated BJ was done in rehearsals - people saw it but said his head wasn't as close. My guess is the dancer got close to that area in rehearsal and Adam grabbed his head and pulled him closer "in the moment".

HL - big difference between Adam and Constantine is there was A BOATLOAD of stuff on line about Adam's pre-Idol days and a million videos of his Zodiac performances. Any fan who looked him up on You Tube knew going in this was no choir boy. There are also a million pix that would prove that. Constantine kept calling himself the geeky theater boy. Adam never pretended to be anything other than what people knew of the pix and videos pre-Idol. He made that pretty clear in his top 13 interview. When asked about all the stuff on-line his answer was "I am who I am and this is a singing competition". Let's face it - Idol wasn't going to allow him to do Zodiac show type performances. That was not him being somebody else - that was him following the guidelines.

Thanks Teddy I think your mom and I would get along great! :D

Teddy - there is a thread at IDF about the Tweets from people about Adam. One of the things John Mayer said was "American Idol Superstar".

zara wrote:

horselaydee wrote:

Zara wrote:

Quote :

So is the issue then supposed to be whether a male/male kiss is approved beforehand?

My general comment about my hoping he does'nt whine about double standards for gay men when it comes to criticism of the 'campiness" or somewhat off nature of the vocals of his performance was not directed specifically at the kissing incident-just a preference I have about entertainers who do bold things to get attention or take heat for their controveraial or racey "artistic" expression that they should be able to face up to the consequences of it and take the heat, not try to point a finger at the flaws of the television censor system or compare themselves to other celebs that have gotten mileage out of their tacky publicity stunts. He is just too talented to need to go that route.

He is taking the heat, though. He's not backing down and he's defending his rights as an artist. I think he would likely not agree that he's too talented to go that route; I think he's going down exactly the route he wants to.

....and that's a pity in my view. For someone who said he didn't want to take a political stance, he's doing a fine job of it now. What's up with that?

Maybe, just maybe, Kris and Katy were taken aback by the 'performance'. Maybe they're of the opinion if you can't say anything nice it's best to not say anything. God I hate Twitter.

I'm getting tired of the 'well if you'd seen his past you'd know what he was about' being bandied about. It doesn't help and it doesn't change how I feel. He was how he was on AI and that's what I fell for. Now he's showing his true colours something I'm not comfortable with and it sucks. Nothing is going to change it or make it better.