SALES DATA FOR IDOLS

That part about forcing Clay to sings covers for his second album isn't true. It is one of the many myths surrounding Clay. That album was always intended to be covers with four new songs. Clay wanted to do covers. He said himself (I heard him) that he prefers covers. So he and Jaymes picked songs, new and old, and took a preliminary cd to Clive for approval. He said it would not sell, and had them go try again. The result was ATDW, produced by Jaymes. The myth is that Clay and Jaymes took Clive a fantastic cd of wonderful new songs, and Clive said no, toss it out and do covers. That's just not true. I wish Clay would clear up stories and rumors, but he has never chosen to do so.

The album usually doesn't know how a performer will do until they are tried. They get a fantastic opportunity to make a cd. If it flops and the label loses interest, at least they had the chance of a lifetime. No, the label isn't interested in helping or nurturing. Not unless there is a waiting audience out there. Adam has demonstrated he can sell albums and he can make money. So RCA is going all out for him.

Once again - complete agreement with Spirit.

I totally believe that to be true about Clay. He has proven over and over again that he likes to sing oldies - especially with the last CD, special and tour.

No, Clay never tries to clear up rumors - and I myself believe because a lot of them were true. We have learned he is not very forthcoming.

Labels are in the business of making money - and frankly they are hurting big time right now - so $$$$ are only going to be used for those they believe will bring them a great return.

I read about the dismal attendance for Kris's last two solo concerts - one just 15 mins. from Arkansas - so I don't see Jive soaking a lot of dough into his career if the new single is not a HUGE hit for him. That is just business. Also, he has been opening for some big names and a lot of people are seeing him at those shows and it has done nothing for his CD sales. Just not an encouraging sign for Jive.

I only bring Kris into this because of what I read last night.

For example - more layoffs.

Quote :

Sony Music Entertainment let go of about 15 staffers on Wednesday including about a dozen at its Sony U.S. Music Sales unit. Among the staffers no longer with the company are: senior VP of channel marketing Kevin Twitchell, VP of field marketing Tony Camardo and sales Colleen Andersen, who oversees the Amazon account.

Sony eliminated the catalog sales staff at the distribution company and moved senior VP of catalog, digital and visual media Harry Safter over to executive VP of sales Michael Block’s team at Sony BMG Music Entertainment's Commercial Music Group.

Additionally, the company cut five field sales account reps, two assistants, and two regional sales reps (one from Columbia and one from RCA/Jive).

There is talk of labels folding and dropping many artists.

Labels are only going to put what money they have into artists they feel are going to get them MORE MONEY.

Like any other business, they make money and cut expenses, or they fold. In addition, the recording industry is in a state of transition now because of digital recordings.

I think that when AI has done its last show, there will be no more than a half dozen or so successful alumni recording artists with proven track records. All contestants are talented, but few have that special something to make people spend money on them.

Firecracker wrote:

Once again - complete agreement with Spirit.

I totally believe that to be true about Clay. He has proven over and over again that he likes to sing oldies - especially with the last CD, special and tour.

No, Clay never tries to clear up rumors - and I myself believe because a lot of them were true. We have learned he is not very forthcoming.

Labels are in the business of making money - and frankly they are hurting big time right now - so $$$$ are only going to be used for those they believe will bring them a great return.

I read about the dismal attendance for Kris's last two solo concerts - one just 15 mins. from Arkansas - so I don't see Jive soaking a lot of dough into his career if the new single is not a HUGE hit for him. That is just business. Also, he has been opening for some big names and a lot of people are seeing him at those shows and it has done nothing for his CD sales. Just not an encouraging sign for Jive.

I only bring Kris into this because of what I read last night.

The thing is since you brought in Kris is Jive screwed up in the first place with Kris with releasing the wrong single for the second one. They were told big time it would not sell even though it was a great song and by putting that Train guy,(Pat Monahan), with it that really would make it so it didn't sell. The single with that guy was not the one that people were buying. When Brian put in numbers for The Truth it was Kris's song from the cd that people went and bought and hardly no one bought the actual single. It flopped and that is not Kris's fault. It was not the right song to be put out for a single. Kris honestly didn't even want that song on the cd and he had said that but Jive still put it on.. so after a failed song some people may be a little weary but that is why Kris, his family, his friends and his fans are trying so hard with AWM. That is an amazing song which should of been the second single and as soon as we get a ADD date we will go to work requesting it. With the little radio competitions that are going on AWM is up against different songs and many people are working to get that to win so it can get the wins it needs to get daytime spins. AWM has it in it to do well cause it is different then a lot of songs that are out right now, but Kris and his fans can't do it all themselves. It needs some promotion and to be honest since Jive is the one that screwed up even after being told in the very beginning before they put out The Truth they should really promote AWM as a way of making it up to Kris. They probably won't but as I said that mistake was all on Jive for not listening to anything said. They freaking asked for comments for The Truth and they got what they asked for and they didn't change the song. Totally ignored all imput.

As for the concerts I don't know of all the solo shows but I know one the last few days was a tiny show and it was at a school to raise money for something close to Kris's heart that he totally believes in. They raised a nice amount and it was a good night. I don't totally look at that as a Solo show for actual tour cause it really wasn't it was a benefit concert. The school by the way was the Blackbird Academy for the Arts! Kris did this along with the Music Empowers Foundation This was the show close to Kris's hometown. There was two shows that night the little acoustic vip show which was 1,900 dollars,(that was Kris and Cale performing, dinner, and something else), to get and there was the other show,(Kris and the band),and I have to find out how much money it was to get that. It was held on October 27th!

Here is Kris's tweet about how much money was raised from that benefit concert; as I said they made a good amount

*********
KrisAllen
Just to let everyone know that was at the concert last night, we raised $100,000 for Blackbird Academy! Thanks everybody for the contribution
*********

50,000 was raised on Kris's side and then 50,000 was given from the Music Empowers Foundation

You can see more about that concert here:
http://mjsbigblog.com/kris-allen-%E2%80%93-donald-w-reynolds-performance-hall-conway-ar-%E2%80%93-102710.htm#more-42950

Also about the cd's I had mentioned in my long post. I can tell you right now that Kris's cd are not stocked in all places right now and not all people have a credit card to do Amazon and as we know not all have Itunes. I have personally checked Four stores in my area since we don't have Wearhouse or Circuit City anymore. Target, KMart,(they have been bad with having a lot of peoples cd's in stock), Walmart and Best Buy have none of Kris's cd's in stock. Best Buy is the only store that told me they would look into when they would get the next supply. Target has gone by the way of saying I don't know what has happened with the shipment for his cd they did the same for Allison when her cd wasn't on the shelves months and before they even considered dropping her. I have said it many times if people can't see the cd and can't just grab it when they are out many times the person never gets it.

ETA: With Kris he has one ace in the whole that does help him a little bit with Jive. LLWD is still selling really well even though it is out of the BB top 200. It never gets reported cause Brian can't get the numbers for pop stuff out of the top 200 but LLWD is pretty much always around some of Carrie's songs in the 4000 to 3000 in sales a week so that song is still making Jive money and adding to the total for it. it is past the 1.5 million number and growing. That is Kris's saving grace right there.

Spirit with Clay I don't know what is true so I won't even question it but I do know for a fact that Clive Davis forced songs on many of the idol alum cause he felt that would be best for them and that is what people wanted. Well it was a bad move for Diana, Taylor and Bo for sure. None of the cd's they put out were them. As I had posted I loved Diana and Taylor's but even I knew those were the wrong songs for them. Diana should of been doing Country cause that is what she had been singing her whole life. She even performed at the Grand Old Opry as a kid and knew lots of country stars, she is finally back on track and doing country and the stuff that people are hearing people are liking. Taylor has two independent cd's out and they are all amazing they are so him and his first label cd wasn't. The label cd was trying to make him pop which Taylor is not. Yes it may have been hard figuring out Taylor's niche but all the label had to do was really ask the fans that loved Taylor and they would of said straight out Blues and soul is Taylor and what he had on his independent cd's. The that fell in love with Taylor were in love with those cd's cause the songs were found all over the internet during AI. They wanted that on his label cd and that was not what they got. A lot of people didn't buy it cause they were mad at Arista for putting this cd out instead of one that was Totally Taylor. His cd sold really well even though it was not what the hard core fans wanted. Just think if it was the right cd; it would of sold Platinum no doubt. Taylor now has his own label where he gets to do his own stuff. With Bo the guy is hard core Southern Rock and Clive gave him POP. That so did not sit well with anybody and as we know Bo's first cd failed big time. He is with a indy label now doing his own music. As I said Clive was not demoted for no reason. He got demoted for a lot of reasons and one reason did have to do with the idols. Now that Clive is not part of idols cd's anymore they have a lot more freedom in songs.

You guys have your feelings on the labels and I have mine and I admit I don't trust them especially Jive. I have seen what they have done to big name artist who have talked since they split for them and it is not right. They have all the right in the world to be frugal but to do what they do is not cool. There is pretty much one artist they put all money in no matter what and that is Britany Spears. That should not be aloud when you have hundreds of other artist on your label who need promotion. I honestly can see Jive as being the next label that may go down. I know the label that Josh Gracin went down cause only a few of the artist on that label were selling well and others not so much. Those artist really selling well were the country acts and the ones that got lots of promotion. Jive artist cd's are not all selling well for whatever reason and one reason is promotion. I will be honest if an artist had a choice of a label I would not go to Jive. Jive was huge once but not anymore.

Shannon

Angel

From Kris's solo show the other night at Maglewood Hall. It is a club 15 mins. from Arkansas. It is GA and the floor holds 1500. Got this from a gal at AWoP who has been to the club many times and never saw it this empty. She is both an Adam and Kris fan. This pic is from a few mins. before he went on. Just don't see how Jive can see Kris as a big money maker for them when attendance like this.

http://yfrog.com/f/66e2jrj/

Ouch, that is scary!

Shannon,
I can't claim to have a thorough grasp of the Idols' experience with the recording industry, so I don't mean to disagree except in a general way.

It's convenient to say the label made a mistake when seen in hindsight. Maybe they should have let Diana sing country, but they make decisions based on many years experience in the business. Diana was 16 or 17. And who is to say a country album would have done any better. Same thing for Bo. He's with an indy label now, but is he on the charts? As for shelves not being stocked, I think that is a store matter, not a label one. If an album is selling, the stores will restock. They don't care who the artist is or if they need a chance or whatever. And of course the label puts tons of money into Britney. She is a money maker. Albums are promoted when they show they can make money, like Britney's and Carrie's and Gaga's. All the promotion in the world is not going to make people buy when they're not interested. It's all about the money. Those that can make money rise to the top. The others, whether from lack of talent or charisma or from career missteps, fall by the wayside.

Exactly Spirit. If people were coming into the stores asking for Kris or Clay's CDs the store would be sure to stock. If the label got lots of requests from stores for the CD they would get them shipped.

You don't need a credit card to order from Amazon or iTunes. You can use a debit card number from your checking account or PayPal from your checking account. I am sure kids with just cash could get their folks to order for them. If they want a CD bad enough it can be gotten.

Kat got to make two kinds of CDs with two different labels and did get night time gigs and videos and still didn't sell well either times. When there just is no demand for someone there just is no demand.

Kris has opened for some MAJOR acts for months now and it just is not getting him sales. I think he is too generic and the label can't do much about that.

I'm just going to go sit in the corner............................and keep to myself about where this discussion is going. I'm really not liking it in here very much. It's making me extremely sad. That's just me though so keep on keeping on.

Angel you're really doing a great job in here when you're the only one who sees it the way you do amongst everyone else. Sending you many of these. I appreciate you a lot right now.

I don't want to make anybody sad. What's to be sad about? I thought we were having a good discussion going with nobody getting upset. I'm done.

No you are having a good discussion Spirit. Please don't stop on my behalf. Truly. It's interesting reading what all of you have been saying and it's one of the better discussions I've seen on here too. One of the less angsty discussions too I might add. That's why I keep coming back to read even though I myself will not join in to the degree many of you currently are. I want all of you to keep it up.

For me a few of the comments are just a little hard to swallow and it makes me sad to see some think the things they do. I'm not necessarily surprised by it, but that doesn't stop the slight burn of disappointment and hurt. However like I said THAT'S JUST ME. I don't want anyone to stop to spare my feelings. I'll be FINE. I promise.

This is going to be my last post on this subject cause I am getting frustrated with no one understanding what I am trying to say and feeling extremely stupid that I can't say things as good as you guys. I am not just making up stories to what I am saying and I am just putting out the facts.

For the things with the cd's it has to do with the store and with the label. Kris's cd's have been selling out at Target and I know that cause I ask,(I ask about his and Adam's cd's when they are not in stock. If the store is not checking things out then it is up to people who buy the cd's. Even though Target at times gives me the run around they still go over to the name card and check with the scanner thing and it will tell you if stores are still going to be carrying that cd and the answer has always been yes. So right there it is a label madder cause they are supposed to ship out enough cd's to have at least 6 in the store. Also people other than me have asked about the his cd's. I do my part as a fan to get his name out there. I am trying to do what the Street team said to do and that is do what some aren't doing.

About that concert I do not know why there wasn't a lot of people there but it does not mean he doesn't have any fans if that is what is being implied.

About Diana yes the girl was 16 or 17 years old just like a certain Taylor Swift when she started. Taylor can't sing live worth a darn but does write great songs and play guitar. The thing that is getting people to love her is the songs but also the fact that her label is all over promoting her and having her everywhere and doing what they can for her. She has never had to fend for herself while someone on another label got all the attention and all this is because she came in second to this person on a reality show and all on that show and Clive thought she was the saving grace of everything going out of their way to help her and going round putting down Diana at every freaking turn,(Simon on Talk shows calling her NOTHING). Diana can sing rings around many people and as I said if things would of been handled correctly with her she would have the chances that Taylor has gotten. Things weren't handled correctly and Diana got out holding her head up high and vowing to achieve something. She has went on to do stuff on Broadway and other stuff on her own cause AI has never backed her on anything and never featured her at all. Diana has done all she has cause of her amazing talent. She is working on a country cd and writing songs that are just as good as Taylor's. All she needs is the one label that will sign her and finally do right by her.

Adam is with RCA and RCA is known for actually spending money on their artist. Jive is a very very Frugel label and they have always been that way. Many artist have actually called them the cheapest label around.

No artist on any label deserves to be shut down so they can garner to one person. Britany Spears can sell cd but she is also like a freaking trainwreck that people can't get enough of so she is constantly in the papers with the stuff she has done. It gets tiring that the people that do negative stuff are the ones that get the attention from the label as well as others. Diana, Kris, and other artist have not been in the tabloids and stuff cause they don't do anything that draws attention like that. That should be commended and rewarded instead of shoved to the closet like it is a bad thing. Britany, Fantasia, Chris Brown and many others constantly have good things happening in their careers for doing things that are wrong. Chris freaking beats Reanna and is sales go crazy and they promote him; Fantasia has an affair, tries to kill herself and she also gets promoted all over the place; gets a behind the music story about her and all kinds of stuff, Britany does stupid stuff like not wearing underwear and she is all over the news and her singles start selling crazy again. I will not get on her about her depression cause I believe that was real and would not wish that on anybody and can understand why she had the breakdown. Back to what I am saying. Many music artist are getting the good for being bad while ones that do things to help others and are not doing the bad things they get nothing and that is not okay.

Last thing; The artist that should be getting the headlines are the ones that go out of their way to be good to people and try to help others. Adam with the Donars Choice charity, and going to schools to talk to the kids, Kris doing what he did for the Blackbird Academy of the Arts, Going to different areas to bring shoes to the needy, doing the USO tour to be there for the troops, Any artist doing the USO tours to be there for the troops, Artist doing stuff for people like building houses, giving food and time to the less fortunate. There are many other things. All this stuff should be rewarded by their labels and others cause these and others are what make this world still worth believing in.

Okay now I am done with this topic.

ETA: Thanks Teddy I appreciate it!!

Shannon

Spirit wrote:

I don't want to make anybody sad. What's to be sad about? I thought we were having a good discussion going with nobody getting upset. I'm done.

I'm done trying to have a meaningful discussion on my own board myself Spirit.... I hope you are not done with the board though. I would miss you very much....

You guys I didn't mean it like that.................. honestly. Look I'm sorry. Please don't be mad.

Angel - for what it is worth I think you do a great job of expressing yourself and I very much enjoy our debates. Just because I don't agree with you on many subjects doesn't mean I don't love discussing the topics with you! It's interesting and challenging and what I enjoy in a forum.

I am putting this here cause it is interesting and it is something I have felt that labels do. Towards the end is the part that I think fits with what I have thought for Diana. I totally feel that RCA only signed Diana so they could keep her busy while Clive did all he could for Fantasia. I think they didn't want another label signing Diana and promoting her better and having her sell better than the golden girl they looked at Tasia to be and to make it look like Tasia should not of won idol.

ETA: the part of the article I just posted below could fit Kris a bit to.

The whole article is a huge eye opener and I feel for any artist that is on a major label.

Here is some of the article that I speak of.
********
So, what does the record company do for you? Its end of the bargain comes in the form of an agreement to manufacture, distribute, and promote the product - your album. Of course, there's no guarantee that the label will even do the latter. Bernard estimates that Mercury's total promotional expenditures on 6ix Ways to Sunday was $400. He guesses that was spent on some posters he saw at the venues the band played during its sole, one-week tour.

"We didn't even consider, `Well s&^*, they don't have to promote you,'" admits Bernard. "They can sign you, but they don't have to promote you. Only after did we become aware of the evil truth that major labels just buy up acts to keep them off the market. That's the truth of the matter. They want to keep the market free and clear so they can push their big money makers."
*******

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/vol17/issue41/music.labels.html

Shannon

It is a very tough and cut throat business - always has been. With CD sales at a record low (well, unless your name is Taylor Swift or SuBo) it is going to get worse. I think all new artists should go the country route Those fans at least buy full CDs and not a few chosen songs off iTunes.

This is freaking unreal

****
– 1 SUSAN BOYLE COLUMBIA 321,506 — THE GIFT
1 2 TAYLOR SWIFT BIG MACHINE 209,512 -36% - SPEAK NOW
******

This is finished numbers by the way. Holy freaking way on Susan for first week and Dang for Taylor on her second week sales.

I tell ya this proves my point in many ways. The proper putting out of info about songs and cds and getting the singer out there to fans can do wonders. Both Susan and Taylor get that from their cd companys. Their labels go out of their way to make sure that ALL Know that they have stuff out and make sure the two are visible. Bravo to their labels. Now Kris go to the one that Taylor is with,(half kidding here but they have from the beginning always did their best for Taylor even when she wasn't a proven music seller yet.).

Shannon

Geez, those are huge numbers. That's crazy.

Did not know where to put this but this is how the top 2 for season 8's top singles did on Radio. This is Year to date findings!

The two songs are LLWD and WWFM!

According to All Access LLWD is #6 on HAC YTD with WWFM right behind:

6 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 94,411
7 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 94,283

On Top 40 they are further down:

34 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 99,899
41 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 88,066

And on AC somewhere in the middle:

17 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 30,631
21 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 27,224

Good job Kradam

Shannon

Thanks for the info!

Firecracker wrote:

Thanks for the info!

Your welcome FC!

Teddy it is exciting to see that both of their singles are going to be on the year end radio charts. Both did amazingly.

Both should be extremely proud!

Shannon